Despite the European Parliament’s resolution and support from European
Parliament Members, the candidate status matter is not over yet.
European Parliament Members think that it is still work to be done for
convincing the member countries to approve it.
Despite the European Parliament’s resolution and support from European Parliament Members, the candidate status matter is not over yet. European Parliament Members think that it is still work to be done for convincing the member countries to approve it.
As for the fight against corruption, the rapporteur for Albania, Nikola Vuljanovic, referred to Top Channel’s “Fiks Fare” report about the judiciary corruption, saying that he hopes that this video will lead to arrests.
Top Channel: Thanks to your report, Mr. Vuljanic, now the European Parliament will be able to send its message on time to the member states in the council. What are your main concerns?
Nikola Vuljaniç, rapporteur for Albania at the European Parliament: I’ve done my best to make it come on time before the Council’s opinion in December, and hope it will be successful. As far as I’m personally concerned and what I saw there, and by what I read, I’ve done my homework. My personal concern are the internal relations in Albania, not only for the political life, but the ability to listen to others, to talk to others, to find a compromise, and not to spend time accusing each other in the political life, in the social life, and everywhere. This is something I found quite disturbing and said it aloud while I was there, both to the opposition and government, and I hope the message was given. When we come there, as the people from the European Parliament, the European Union, to see what happens in the country, we have no interest in hearing the accusations. Who’s guilty for what. What we want to hear is what they are going to do together to make your country become better, to make reforms, to make everything. This is my primary concern and I built it into the resolution.
Top Channel: For the Albanian government, the ball is now still in your side, Mr.Kukan. It is still hard to be positive on Albania?
Eduard Kukan, Head of the Delegation for Balkan at the European Parliament: No, we are positive. I think that the report and the resolution table by Mr.Vuljanic is positive, definitely. And I don’t to prove my diplomatic skills, but I want to say that Mr.Vuljanic is a real refreshment in our world, because as the new rapporteur, he is doing a wonderful job. Because when prayers are needed, they should be said. He prepared the report on time, he is very serious, and what he just said, is very good because us, who are dealing with Albania for a long time, we got used to this kind of political discussions which we are facing in the country, and he reminded us about the basis. It is good that he can prove to your politicians that he is unpleasantly surprised by the things he sees there. So, from my point of view, development in Albania is positive. The new political culture, speaking on the experience that I have, is appearing there, but all this has to consolidate. As I said before, we need more proves that this is a sustainable new positive situation. There are some signs, we are all welcoming it. The discussion in the Foreign Affair about Albania proved that the European Parliament is really wishing to help this country move ahead, to get the candidate country status. But it is necessary, after the former experience, to build the track record of the facts that really the new political situation is in the country. It’s not difficult to be positive on Albania now, and we are positive.
Top Channel: There is a positive recommendation from the European Commission, a positive report from the European Parliament and the additional comments from the commission again to the member states, but still there are few member states who are still hesitating, like your country, Mr.Fleckenstein, Germany.
Knut Fleckenstein, German Parliament Member S&D: Well, first of all, I would like to come back to Mr.Kukan, who said. I think it is really an important thing and the citizens in Albania should know that this Parliament has a really common understanding. It is time that Albania gets the candidate status. The Socialists of EPP and all others together. I think this is good news for Albania. Some members states are still hesitant, and Germany belongs to that group. I’m not really sure why, because there is no reason to be hesitant. But maybe we had elections in Germany, and now we are building a new government, and just last night they agreed that they will stick to the enlargement policy.
Top Channel: Your party will be in coalition with the Demochristians. Do you think that it will change the policy of Germany towards the enlargement, especially on Albania.
Fleckenstein: I hope so, that there will be an additional push at the right direction. I’m sure that the Socialists, the Social Democrats and the Christian Democrats together, will continue the enlargement policy. Sometimes they are too hesitant and not brave enough. Because, you have to see, in our countries people discuss enlargement a bit different than we do as politicians. They are afraid that the new members states will cost maybe a lot of money, and we have to explain them in an understandable way, that enlargement is not only good for those who want to come in, but also for us who are already in.
Top Channel: Although the role of the Parliament is increasing during this period, what do you think will be their impact through this resolution to the member states, for the Council. How would they consider it?
Fleckenstein: I suppose they will accept the suggestions of the Parliament and the Commission as well. The point is that you can clearly see the improvement not only in bringing new rules and acts to the Albanian Parliament, but in a general state of mind. The refusal of Syria’s chemical weapons couldn’t be imagined 10 years ago. The protests in the streets, not because of I don’t know what kind of social or other reasons, but for some environmental reasons, could not be imagined some time ago. Something happened there and people in western countries, especially those countries where there are some doubts, should be really told that Albania is not definitely entering the European Union tomorrow. It’s the candidate status, it is the position where the moves could be more easily controlled, and the negotiations for sure last for a long time.
Top Channel: I don’t think that Mr.Kukan totally agrees with you.
Kukan: I would return to your question. What we think about the impact of this resolution to the Council. I wouldn’t say it easily that they will agree, because of the experience. The Commission recommended and the Parliament supported Macedonia for five years, and the Council always decided otherwise. But I think that the resolution which will be adopted, will play an important role for the council, before they take their conclusions in December. They simply cannot ignore it, because the Council decided. The Commission writes something and recommends it, but the Council decides. The member states, the heads of governments, and they don’t always say yes to what we are suggesting. But you are also right to say that the role of the Parliament is increasing, and that they have to get used to it. It takes time. More and more I think they will have to take into account what the Parliament is sending to them, because there are still many more issues that cannot be approved without the consent of the government. So, I don’t say that it will be passed by the Council automatically, but it plays a very important role there. The question that you asked to Mr.Fleckenstein, he gave a brave answer, that politicians sometimes should be more brave. I agree with that, but I think that we are doing our obligations to support Albania, and of course, the politicians in our countries make their own decisions, but we should influence them as much as possible.
Fleckenstein: It’s not done by just voting for this resolution. For example, in my case, I have to turn back to Berlin, and not only me, also colleagues from other parties, to convince the German government, if necessary. At least we will vote for the resolution, and we will do our best at home to have a good result in December.
Top Channel: Fight against corruption is a key condition for the European Union integration of Albania. And for this, the Commission and the member states have requested track records and time is needed. While, for the candidate status, hopefully for this December, time is not enough to prove that. Do you feel that if the council will not take the decision by this December, there might be a kind of negative impact in the reforms inside Albania?
Fleckenstein: I think that of course you can prove that corruption really went back in such a short period, but you can prove that you took measures to stop it, or lead it in a better direction. This is what we all want to see.
Kukan: I agree. It is not possible to do it in such a short time, but that short time is enough to show the tendency that you are doing it, that the legislation is being adopted. I think that you should not put ambitious goals that in six weeks or two months you are going to do everything, but the fact that the government is taking measures and that they are implementing them, that is more important than to say that you have results in corruption. Corruption is a very complicated issue not only in Albania, so, to what Mr.Fleckenstein said, I want to add that it is enough time to show that the government is taking this issue seriously and has started delivering.
Vuljanic: This is the key point. To see the trend, to see that there is a will. Another key point is to make a mental click in the heads of the general population, which will say that corruption is bad. I know the mentality of the Balkans. Corruption is the way of finding your way in society, something like that. He has found his way, he has succeeded in life through corruption. This mental click that this is bad, is the crucial point. This is the point when you are able to arrest a Minister, a General Prosecutor, to arrest a former Prime Minister.
Top Channel: That’s what happened in Croatia.
Vuljanic: That’s what happened in Croatia. This click happened after a few years of sustained work. And a few years, of 10 years, of pressure from the European Union. This click is important. Now it is quite a normal work to arrest whoever is corrupted.
Kukan: It should be normal.
Fleckenstein: But this has also to do something with the social society, it has to do with fair salaries, so you don’t need to think about other income.
Vuljanic: This also.
Kukan: It is possible to convince the Council of the member states that you have really started doing things, but it might be more difficult to persuade your people that the government is implementing things. That’s why the process should be longer and continuous.
Top Channel: As it has been said in your Commission reports, corruption and crime impunity is widespread, and it remains a serious problem when it comes to the corruption in the judiciary. Are you aware of the video that was aired last night by Fiks Fare, on the method used in our judiciary system in order to corrupt?
Vuljanic: I’ve seen the video and read the article. This is something that should be quite the normal way of doing things. An assistant of the General Prosecutor was taped asking for a bribe or something like that, to let some people out of prison. He was removed from duty a few minutes after it was aired.
Top Channel: And there is an undergoing investigation for the judges involved.
Vuljanic: I really hope they are arrested, but it wasn’t said in the article. When we were there, there was a police action on the illegal gambling, and some gambling houses in Tirana were closed. And they didn’t find anybody in this gambling house, because somebody from the police informed them that they were coming. And I asked if they arrested that policeman, and everybody was concerned. How can you arrest a policeman. Quite easily.
Fleckenstein: Just close the door.
Kukan: You need to do the click.
Fleckenstein: But we need that click even in Hamburg sometimes.
Top Channel: Blood Feud is an ongoing problem in Albania, especially after the fall of communism. It is mentioned in this resolution thanks to the political consensus of the two main groups. Why this consensus, suddenly, and towards whom it was addressed? To the government, to the society.
Vuljanic: Primary to the government, but also to NGOs and also to the society. This is not a problem which has been there for these past years, but for a few centuries.
Top Channel: I was talking about the 10.000 victims of this.
Vuljanic: I asked this question in Albania. Didn’t want to include this in the resolution, because you cannot include everything in the five pages. I asked and they told me it’s about 3000 families that are hiding from blood feuds. It’s an enormous number and it should be stopped.
Top Channel: Why there was consensus from the Social Democrats and the EPP on this issue, and why only now, and not in the previous reports of the European Parliament?
Fleckenstein: I don’t know why it is not in the previous reports, but we have to explain that in our system, in the European Union, the power which is allowed comes only from the state. This is one of our democratic principles, and this at least we should mention, and people should know how things in the European Union are, and maybe the people in Albania need some more time to recognize this. But we have to insist on that.
Vuljanic: It is the rules of the game. If you have to join the club, you have to obey to the rules of the game.
Kukan: Frankly, I don’t know why it was not included before. I think that it is good that is has been included now. Don’t criticize us for what we have done in the right way now.
Top Channel: Mr.Kukan, there was no amendment from you this time regarding the January 21st protests, when four people were killed. There was a ruling but no one was found guilty for the killings, as it was the case also for the explosion of Gerdec, as you remember. You were satisfied with the ruling, I suppose?
Kukan: I’m not satisfied with the ruling. I maintain the same position on that issue, as I did before. Until all these things are properly and objectively investigated, and those who are found responsible for that should be dealt with, until then, there is something missing on the political scene in Albania, and cannot be said that everything is fine. I don’t know why I didn’t put that amendment, but I still have the same position and I will prove it to you in the future that I will still insist on that.
Top Channel: Having in mind that there are other issues, like the depoliticization of the administration, there were sixty amendments on media freedom and political influence on media, working conditions for journalists, but also the economic performance of the country. Are you still positive that Albania could get the candidate status this December, and what about the opening negotiations.
Vuljanic: These are two different matters. Albania could and should take the candidate status just because of these reasons that you mentioned now. The country will be under microscopic scrutiny, much more than before. This issue should be corrected by constant pressure. That’s how things work. The position of the media in Albania is funny, really. I was watching Television there, although I didn’t understand the language, but just to see how it works. There is quite of lot of independent private TV broadcasters which were completely professional, like Top Channel and some others, and there is a poor public television. Which is wrong.
Top Channel: We are asking for a new system in the media.
Vuljanic: Right. The country should pay more attention to the public media, because they are the source of information for the citizens primarily.
Kukan: I really expect that Albania will get the candidate status, and that the hesitating member states will be convinced. I think that Albania deserves it, and I even think that it is not the case it will backfire with the negative affects, we have been waiting for two years. Two years of a lost time, because of the internal situation. Doesn’t hurt to be the whole year, because Serbia started with the Council in March, and the track record and the results would be convincing, but the candidate country status needs encouragement for the country, and gets closure to the starting of the accession negotiations. But for the accession negotiations, it’s a different issue and I don’t think… if your people expect a date for the negotiations, it is not realistic. Let’s put it very fairly. But after the candidate country status, the screening starts, the country is really going through the process, and then, based on that, the start of the negotiations can be set. The candidate status I think it is necessary, but Albania will have to wait for the date of the start of the negotiations.
Top Channel: And about your concerns with the media problems?
Kukan: With the candidate status, we can press your government for the media more than now.
Vuljanic: That’s the point.
Fleckstein: If everything was fine, we would invite you to become a member on the next Monday. But this is a marathon, not a sprint. We should not mention only the points where we see a lot of problems. I was in Tirana some weeks ago, and I could really see a positive development even in the process of the civil society. When I was with the Ombudsman and with the Minister of Social Affairs. Step by step, I think there is very good development. Let’s hope that it will continue.
Kukan: By the way, you have a very good Ombudsman. He has done a good job.
Top Channel: But his reports are not included in Parliamentary debates.
Vuljanic: They will.
Kukan: Bu he is doing his job.
Top Channel: Thank you very much for your opinions.
Kukan: Thank you very much for inviting us.
Top Channel
